Åre, Sweden 25 May 2005

Questions & Answers After the Plenary Meeting of the EAPC Security Forum, chaired by the NATO Secretary General JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER (Secretary General of NATO): Ladies and gentlemen, if I look at the clock we have some twelve minutes for questions you might have, comments you might want to make to which Minister Freivalds, Mr. Derviş, and if necessary myself, will do our best to answer or to react before we break up into the panels. I've understood that Jamie might assist me in identifying people in the room. Q: Fraser Cameron, European Policy Centre. I didn't hear the word Uzbekistan from you, Secretary General, and I wonder if you'd care to offer a comment as to how NATO, and indeed, the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council should deal with partner countries who show a blatant disregard for human rights? DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Thank you. You've heard me a lot about Uzbekistan over the past days, and you've seen, I hope, and if you've not seen it, we can distribute it, the statements the North Atlantic Council made yesterday on Uzbekistan. We discussed it, by the way, over dinner yesterday night as well. It is clear, as Minister Freivalds was saying, and I can echo her comments, that NATO is very much disturbed by what has happened. NATO is supporting the call for an independent international inquiry into what happened in Uzbekistan. NATO has decided to postpone some Partnership for Peace activities which were supposed to take place in Toshkent this week. And NATO, together with other international organizations and nations, will keep on the pressure on President Karimov and the government of Uzbekistan, to see that he does accept an international inquiry because if you look at the Partnership for Peace, and you look at what it is and what I've tried to make clear in my speech, it is about upholding human values, it is about upholding human rights. So NATO is, together with the United Nations, individual countries, the European Union, let's not forget the OSCE, I look Minister Rupel as chairman in office straight into his face here, together with the OSCE, playing an important role, putting on the pressure to see that this independent inquiry into the Andijan happenings will take place. Q: (inaudible)... Institute. Mr. Secretary General, when you mentioned comprehensive security approach as a most effective way how to deal with the new security threats, I did not hear the word private sector. While at the same time about 60 percent of critical infrastructure is in the hands of private sector. Would you elaborate a little about how NATO sees a possible cooperation partnership with that part of the society? Thank you. DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well what NATO, of course, is involved in, if you look more specifically into NATO's operation in Afghanistan, NATO's operation, the UN operation under United Nations mandate, is of course guarding security and stability. If you look at the concept of the Provincial Reconstruction Teams, there is a strong civilian-military component, which is a new component to NATO. And which is, let me be open and frank, not always easy in the relationship with the non-governmental organizations. That might be an interesting subject for discussion today in the panels. NATO has no direct links, or dealings for that matter, with the private sector. Having said that I heard Mr. Derviş make some very interesting comments on the role of the private sector. But NATO as such, in its operations and missions, does not have, let's say, a direct link with the private sector. That's not to say that NATO's responsibilities, and some responsibilities of the private sector, cannot coincided. It's of course definitely the case. But I don't know if Minister Freivalds or Mr. Derviş would like to come in on this relationship. Mr. Derviş, please. KEMAL DERVIŞ (Director-Designate, UNDP): Well, yeah, just to add, I think risk is the biggest problem for the private sector in immediate post-conflict type situations. There is excessive risk. Now in a market... in a pure market environment in a developed country, high risk means we'll require high returns, high prices, but in a post-conflict situation you cannot have these high prices. They would create inequities and they would actually hamper the recovery and exclude large numbers of people. So there is a problem. The private sector faces high risk, and yet the returns are hard to get. And that's where, I think there is a public sector role in risk-pooling, in supporting public-private partnership where the public sector assumes a big chunk of the risks for a while, and then gradually hands over to the private sector. So I think this transition, how to manage this transition, how to get the private sector to be active, and yet mitigate the risk without creating high prices and unaffordable services, I think is one of the key challenges we face. DE HOOP SCHEFFER: And may I add to Mr. Derviş's comments that NATO... what NATO, of course, does is trying to create the conditions for the process, as was indicated by Mr. Derviş, to happen. In Afghanistan NATO is there to create the conditions of security and stability, supporting the Afghan government and the Afghan authorities, let's not forget in a complementary role, to create the conditions for processes to start in Afghanistan, or elsewhere, for the private sector to come in after, let's say, a phase where you have seen public support. To give you one other example on Afghanistan, how are they going to create security and stability there if no solution can be found in the... for the poppies, for the poppy growth, for the counternarcotics problem? I mean, it all fits together. NATO plays a role, but not the only role under Afghan leadership, under UN leadership, to see that there is an integrated approach of the international community. But the country now has a democratically-elected president, has a government, will have a Parliament after the elections in September, in the hope that these processes can further continue or start. LAILA FREIVALDS (Foreign Minister of Sweden): May I add some... DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Minister, please. FREIVALDS: I just want to add that in this integrated approach one very important part of it for the private sector is the institution-building. If you can't support new institutions, democratic-based, and have them in place, then the private sector will not have possibility to growth. So I think that is a very important part of the international mission in, for instance, Afghanistan. Q: Wrestling to define this comprehensive concept of security, Mr. Secretary General, you reminded us that the gun is less and less important. It is important, but it is not the only thing. Mr. Derviş reminded us also that money in a post-crisis solution is not the only thing. But where does it left NATO as a military alliance? If our core business is changing, is not our legitimacy to act with other international institutions diminishing? DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well, I suppose the question is addressed to me. Let me answer, however, Ambassador d'Aboville, which is a fascinating and interesting discussion, that I think NATO is a political military alliance, not just a military alliance, because you have a military alliance to achieve political ends. In Afghanistan and the UN mandate we've tried to achieve political ends. In Kosovo we tried to achieve political ends. We do that with the mission in Iraq. We do that with our operation in the Mediterranean. So political military. That does not mean that NATO is becoming the United Nations. Or that NATO, for that matter, is the European Union. The European Union, I think, has a wide array of fields, a wider array of measures than NATO has. NATO should not be an eat-all or a hold-all organization. In other words, let me answer Ambassador d'Aboville in French: l'OTAN n'a pas l'ambition d'être le gendarme du monde. That is not... NATO is not the world's policeman. But if we look at political and military transformation of NATO I think, but I might be wrong, that what we see, what we have seen in Afghanistan, what we see in Kosovo, and that also goes for NATO's partners, as Minister Freivalds has indicated, that the demands on NATO in the future might well increase instead of decrease, as far as its participation in these kinds of operations is concerned. But I say, and there I think Ambassador d'Aboville and I fully agree, that NATO, of course, should address the business where it's good at, what it's qualified for. That goes without saying. But n'en déplaise, M. l'Ambassadeur, n'en déplaise... that the plea I have made, and I think Minister Freivalds has done so as well, for answering the question, can NATO do it all by itself? Or should NATO have increased relations with other international organizations, like the EU, like the OSCE, like the UN? I think is a very relevant one. Q: Temuri Yakobashvili, Georgian Foundation for Strategic and International Studies. Mr. Secretary General, from the problems or four major challenges you listed, at least three of them are very closely linked to Russia; weapons of mass destruction, regional conflicts. I wonder what NATO is doing in NATO-Russia Council, to address these problems and how NATO is trying to persuade Russia to play positive role in solving those challenges? Thank you. DE HOOP SCHEFFER: We are addressing these problems. And we are addressing them together with our very important strategic partner, the Russian Federation. And the NATO-Russia Council has developed, over the past years, into a serious body where many serious questions are discussed. We have many forms of interesting and developing practical cooperation with the Russian Federation. Does that mean that we agree on everything? No, it does not. But that doesn't matter. That will not prevent us from building on this partnership and discussing things we agree on, working on interoperability, working on peacekeeping, working on exercises, but also working, for instance, and discussing the Istanbul commitments entered into by the Russian Federation; discussing Georgia. In other words, we have a full agenda in the NATO-Russia Council. I think it's developing well, and that we do not agree from time to time. That is not exceptional, I think. But let's discuss and let's face these challenges together, because terrorism does not know any boundaries, nor does the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Q: Ambassador Benavides, permanent representative of Spain in NATO. Let me going back... I mean, to be back for a moment to the previous question. It is obvious that we need more complementarity among international relationships. Not only because of what we have seen... we are seeing now in the Balkans. We talk about that this morning. Also in Afghanistan. But I mean, we need an exit strategy. I mean, what we do with our operations, I mean, is not only... I mean, to try to maintain security, this is the first phase. But secondly, as we have now seen, for instance, in the Balkans, military people are trying to develop confidence-building measures. But they are not enough. We have to be complemented by the private sector, by other international organizations, by NGOs. Postponing(?) strategy, it's going to be the same question. We cannot work. I hope really that when in September the mandate of ISAF is renewed in Security Council this will be accompanied by international conference, where we can address, not only security questions, but also sustainment of Afghanistan in the future. So in this sense I really think that this is a very important issue that we can retain from the meeting here in Sweden, is the importance not only of the civic or military cooperation, but also the association of other international organizations in the private sector. Otherwise our work cannot be seen in isolation from the others. Thank you. DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Minister Freivalds? FREIVALDS: Oh, I just can agree. That's a good description of what is needed, and that stresses the point I had, the cooperation between the different organizations. Because all these organizations involved in peacekeeping and supporting development in countries have different means to use, and we have to use all these means, and we have to use them together, we have to coordinate them. We need to have a plan for how we will continue after we have secured the situation to make peace and be sustainable in the future. So the cooperation between the different organizations is crucial. DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Jamie, I think, if I look at the clock, that we should give more people the opportunity to start the debates, but then in the panels, if you agree, if you not say you have to, I'm afraid. (LAUGHTER) JAMIE SHEA: Well, I agree in that case. DE HOOP SCHEFFER: But yeah, because you never know. But let me, once again, before asking you to go to the different panel discussions, let me once again thank Minister Freivalds, Mr. Derviş very much for their contributions here this morning. I think they have provided the setting of the scene for our discussions today. The questions have already proven that there are a lot of things to discuss. Thank you very much for your presence here this morning, and I wish you all a very interesting and fruitful day.